'I can bring change because my politics is for people'

Here is the text of Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina's interview with BBC's HARDtalk during her five-day London visit to attend the inaugural ceremony of London Olympics 2012. BBC World News broadcast the interview, taken by Stephen Sackur, four times yesterday at 03.30, 08.30, 15.30 and 20.30 GMT. (Note: there may be a few words missing because of technical problems in transcribing from the telecast)
BBC: The public in your country wants to believe in the integrity of government both in terms of respecting human rights and also in terms of a fundamental integrity and honesty amongst public servants. We do not see that in your government.
PM: Listen, the military ruled our country for a long time. The military-backed government ruled this country ... BNP-led government ruled this country and they indulged in corruption. Can you just change that overnight? No, you cannot. I can ensure that my government is not involved in any corruption. We never indulged in corruption. If we had been involved in corruption, how could we make so much progress in the country? Our GDP, in spite of worldwide recession, is above 6%. We increased our literacy rate, we increased our power generation. We are developing our country and we have increased our food production. How could we do it?
BBC: Your economy is growing … figures of growth are impressive … But the question is who is really benefiting from the money that is coming in from your economic progress ….
PM: No, no … Of course not … We are … I am doing politics for the sake of my people, not for my benefit …
BBC: If that's true Prime Minister, why has the World Bank lost confidence in your government's ability to deliver on clean governance ... let's be clear what we were talking about. The World Bank wanted to put more than a billion dollars of funding into one of the most important infrastructural projects your country is seeing in many years ... that is the Padma bridge project. They withdrew the funding because they had alerted your government to corruption in the handing out of contracts ... they wanted actions; they were not satisfied with the actions you have taken ...
PM: Suddenly, they raised the issue. Then we ... my finance minister and I personally asked them ... okay you give the proof. But they couldn't place any substantial proof that there is corruption, they didn't. And the main point is …
BBC: I am sorry ... are you denying that there has been corruption in the handing out of contract in this Padma bridge project?
PM: Of course, of course, listen …
BBC: Then I am puzzled because one of the key ministers who stand accused of involvement in these has just quit your government, why is that? If there was no wrongdoing why has he done that?
PM: Many people started accusing him so he resigned. He has done a brave thing. Had he been involved in this corruption, perhaps he would not have resigned.
BBC: The question is, here on this particular project, on simple one …
PM: No, no, let me prove it …
BBC: The World Bank sent a letter outlining their concerns, there were at least four different itemised concerns about corruption, now you have the opportunity to publish that letter to tell the Bangladeshi people exactly what the concerns were. You constantly refused to do that, why will you not publish that letter?
PM: You cannot do that because there is an embargo.
BBC: No, the World Bank is happy to do that.
PM: No it is not true. They cannot do it.
BBC: Of course they can, they say …
PM: Then ask them to publish.
BBC: But they say they cannot publish.
PM: Why not? Why not?
BBC: Because that's how World Bank's relationship with individual states work. You have the right, they do not.
PM: Listen, the letter doesn't mean anything. They could not supply any substantial proof with that letter. Just a letter cannot prove there is corruption. Time and again we asked them [for proof].
BBC: The opposition says that the letter points at you and other senior figures of your government, is that true?
PM: Listen, you can point at anybody and the opposition can do it. It is the opposition's job. My point is, our Anti-Corruption Commission is already investigating it and they asked the World Bank to send all the documents and they refused to send. Now my question is if they have substantial proof why they refused to send all the papers and documents they have? They are not giving [those], I personally want it. At first, they sent two letters to me, that was not my government, not my ministers. I pointed out this was the previous government. So you give me the proof. Twice they did it but they could not prove. So, unnecessarily you cannot just accuse anyone without substantial proof ... that is important.
BBC: Prime Minister, let me put it this way. It seems a shame for the Bangladeshi people, many of them living in dire poverty, that your relationship with the World Bank has soured so badly. It also seems a shame for the Bangladeshi people, that your relationship with one of the most respected business leaders in your country, the Nobel laureate Mohammad Yunus has also soured so badly. Why did you call him a bloodsucker of the poor?
PM: You go to Bangladesh, you see with your eyes, then you will see. But how could he say I said it? Did I mention his name? I didn't. I said someone. But why it occurred in your mind …
BBC: Sorry, so let's be clear about this. So are you now denying that you have said Mohammad Yunus is a bloodsucker of the poor?
PM: No, I am not denying anything. I am putting a question to you, why it occurred in your mind that it is him? Why?
BBC: I have been reading the Bangladeshi press, everybody it seems in the Bangaldeshi media believes that you referred to him directly when you used this phrase "a bloodsucker of the poor." If you want to retract or if you want to tell me you didn't mean him, then that's fine.
PM: Listen, listen, I am telling one thing. Taking interest 40%, 30% or 45% from these poor people -- is it fair? It is not. How can these poor people stand by themselves? If you lend money and take 35 to 45% interest, it's a shame.
BBC: So the entire model built by Grameen Bank and Mohammad Yunus which has been celebrated around the world as a way of lifting poor people out of poverty -- you are saying you do not accept it, you do not want it.
PM: I want that there should be an enquiry [to know] how many people have come out from poverty because of that. If there's one village, how many people? Poverty reduction has been done by my government. Within three years we reduced poverty by 10%. So it is our government. And about this Grameen Bank, it is a government statutory body ... it was established by government.
BBC: Isn't it the truth that you forced Mohammad Yunus out of his role in Grameen Bank after he tried to set up an independent political party in 2007, that's why you turned against him?
PM: Listen, that time I was in custody, I was in jail when he tried to form his political party. He was such a big person so why he failed? He has every opportunity, why he couldn't form his own party? Have you ever thought about it? Well, having said that, I am telling you I didn't oust him from the Grameen Bank, he himself did it. According to Grameen Bank law, an MD can remain till he is 60. How old is he? He is 71 years old.
BBC: He is one of the celebrated Bangladeshis ...
PM: His age did not permit him. But he went to the court. He filed a case against the government and the governor of Bangladesh Bank. He filed cases and because of this case, he was defeated.
BBC: When you talk about Khaleda Zia, a sense of animosity, a sense that a division in Bangladeshi society has not healed ... that tells us you have not achieved your aim of unifying.
PM: My country is unified. If you go through the result of election, you can trust this.
BBC: You have seen military attempted a coup in your country in last 12 months … you have seen the opposition put hundreds of thousands people on the streets, you have seen the opposition say that they may not contest the next election because of constitutional changes that you have made which they say fundamentally threatened democracy …
PM: Of course not. Rather, we amended the constitution that ensures democratic right of our people, fundamental right of our people because unconstitutional or authoritarian government cannot come in future. They cannot capture power illegally. That we made sure in the constitution. That way we ensure people's democratic right.
BBC: Before we finish, you have a long-term trajectory to make real economic improvement. That is one fundamental problem facing you which is far beyond your party politics. That is climate change. You now have experts in your country. According to Bangladesh Centre for Advanced Studies, more than 30% of the Bangladeshi people are liable to the climate change and rising sea levels. What is your strategic plan to counter the potential catastrophe?
PM: Already we have adopted mitigation plans. We did not wait for foreign assistance. With our own budget, we have taken many steps for mitigation and we have taken action plans. Already we have started implementing and we have commitment. Yes, we are receiving a very small amount of fund and we need more support from the world that those countries that are responsible for climate change, for global warming, should come forward and assist us because we are sufferers, our people will be the worst sufferers. They should come forward, they should place funding so that we can assist our people. You can see what we have done and that we have started to save our people. To save our country we have started building green belt, we have started dredging our rivers, we have started building cyclone shelters, flood shelters for our people. Already in the southern part, many works have been started.
BBC: One more question, Prime Minister. You came to office after a substantial election victory with hope that you really could bring changes to Bangladesh. You believe you have changed it.
PM: Already we have taken action plans. Here are long-term plans and short-term plans and we have the vision --Vision 2021. Already we have adopted our programmes, the sixth five-year plan for dynamic development. We have already started implementing it. And up to 2021, we have mission to develop the country and the long term programme. So I believe that I can bring change because my politics is for people. I do politics not only to bring changes to our politics but also I want to make sure that our people get their basic needs, fundamental rights, and through that way I am working. So I believe that only I can do it.
BBC: As you said this another question popped up in my mind. "Only I can do this," you said. In Bangladesh, there is a long struggle between you and Khaleda Zia. So the best thing for Bangladesh is introducing a different political view. So leave the stage for new.
PM: If people want.
BBC: You want to run the country again.
PM: Of course, I will do, if my party permits me. If my people permit me. I do politics for my people, for my party. I mean it is not "I", it is my party. Actually, I should have used the word "our."