'If they don't participate in the election, they will lose'

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina spoke exclusively to the BBC Bangladesh Correspondent Anbarasan Ethirajan on various current issues. We run the whole interview with permission.

BBC: Will you bring in a new law – new anti-blasphemy law?
Hasina: This country is a secular democracy, so people of each and every religion have the right to perform their religion freely. But it is not fair to hurt anybody's religious feeling. We always try to protect everyone's religious sentiment.
There are many countries which have blasphemy law. But I don't think we need it in our country. Already we have different laws and ways to protect religious sentiment or religious rights of the people. So, I think, CrPC (Code of Criminal Procedure), Special Powers Act and International Crimes (ICT) law which we have recently adopted are enough.
BBC: Are you rejecting the demands of the Islamists?
Hasina: The question is not of accepting or rejecting. I said that we don't need it at this moment.
BBC: What about the other demands?
Hasina: We will go through all the demands and we will see. If there is any that is reasonable, suitable for our country or for our people, we can accept it. If they are not reasonable or suitable for our country or society we will not accept them.
BBC: Your critics are accusing you of giving in to the demands of Islamists. You say this is a secular country. But bloggers have been arrested. Is it because the Islamists called for protest?
Hasina: No no. not that. Well, I told you that if anybody tries to hurt the sentiment of any religion or religious leader there is a law and we can take any action. Already we have set up a committee. That committee is going through all electronic media, blogs, Facebook and other things. If any of them are found guilty they must be brought to book. They have been arrested because they may have written unlawful things.
BBC: But the government did not arrest them during the last few months. The action came only after the Islamists started movement.
Hasina: We have formed a committee and it is going through all the details. You can't arrest someone just like that. You have to have some evidence. It takes time.
BBC: Is Bangladesh moving away from its secular tradition?
Hasina: Of course not. Rather, we amended our constitution. We ensured rights of each and every religious section. My party, Bangladesh Awami League, always believes and supports that each and every follower of any religion should have the right to follow his religion. So we ensured that.
BBC: But the recent attacks on minority Hindu community … they have been going on for weeks. I spoke to many minority leaders. They are very scared and they said that the government hasn't done enough to protect them.
Hasina: This is not true.
BBC: Places of worships have been attacked, houses have been destroyed. They are still living in fear.
Hasina: Look. Actually it is Jamaat-e-Islami which attacked not only the Hindu temples, but Buddhists, Christians and even our mosques. You know, they set fire inside our national mosque. They are doing it and the government is taking action. If anybody says the government is not taking action that is not true. Wherever any incident takes place our law-enforcing agencies immediately rush there. They try to protect them and we have taken all measures. I don't know with whom you talked but we are very careful about it. We are taking action immediately.
BBC: You have major protests by Jamaat-e-Islami, the country's largest Islamist party. The main opposition is holding general strikes. Now the Islamist groups are holding strikes. Is Bangladesh at a crossroads?
Hasina: Of course not. Strike is a common thing. This is a free, democratic country and people can hold any type of demonstration if they want. We don't try to stop them and we always give them the chance because they have the right to carry out their activities. But we have to protect people's property, people's rights, people's lives. We take precautions for this.
BBC: But there are concerns that the government may declare emergency.
Hasina: Why should I declare emergency? We have enough laws to protect our people. Yes, there are some people trying to spread that rumour.
BBC: Bangladesh has witnessed a series of protests, mostly by Jamaat-e-Islami, the country's largest Islamist party, and also by the opposition. More than 80 were killed in the last few months and human rights groups are accusing the security forces of using excessive force.
Hasina: Well, you see. Security forces have to protect the people and their properties and lives. You know, many security people and police personnel, were also killed by the Jamaat-e-Islami or the opposition. If you go through our history you will see that in this country many people were killed in such activities. If you take the period 2001 to 2006 then you will see this. We have stopped all such terrorist activities after our government came to power four years ago, We stopped the killings and other activities. Unfortunately, in the name of movement, they have now started attacking people, attacking the minorities, attacking our party supporters and attacking law-enforcing agencies. So, it is the duty of the law-enforcing agencies to protect people and their properties.
BBC: But most of them were killed in police firing.
Hasina: If police come under attack what can they do? Have you seen how they were attacked and how they were killed brutally? So, what can they do? You can't blame them.
BBC: But the main opposition and also Jammat-e-Islami both said the ongoing war crimes trials are nothing but political vendetta. Most of the people are from the opposition parties and you are trying to get political mileage out of this tribunal.
Hasina: Look. When I started trial of the killers of my father, the father of the nation who was assassinated, they said the same thing. And now they are saying it again. Who are these people? They committed crimes during the Liberation War, they killed our people, they burnt villages, raped our women. These are the people who handed over our women to the Pakistan army. So they committed war crimes. And it is not only our country, in many countries there are war crimes tribunals.
BBC: But the way you are going about it people are thinking this could be political vendetta … you are taking political revenge against the opposition parties.
Hasina: Of course not. If the opposition parties think they are part of the war crimes trials then we can't help it. But it is true as there is so much evidence against those people who have been arrested and are under trial as war criminals. My question is why is our opposition trying to protect the war criminals? This country was liberated … so many people sacrificed their lives. It is the people's demand ... they want the war criminals to be tried. The way this trial is going on is absolutely according to international standards and according to the country's laws. There is a provision for appeal. There are many tribunals which don't have this provision for appeal. We kept this provision because if they are not satisfied they can appeal to the higher court. That's why we have given them the opportunity. So how can one say it is not up to the standard?
BBC: But this has clearly divided this nation. So many protests are going on … people are getting killed … people are on the street against this tribunal. This has really divided this nation. Isn't it?
Hasina: No. No. You can't say divided. A handful of people, a small group, they are against it. Not the whole nation. Rather, it was in our election manifesto and people voted for us and you know the result. So, this is the people's demand. Only a few people may say so. But it is not the whole nation. Rather, our nation wants once the trial to be completed; then at least the people will be able to live peacefully.
BBC: Let's move to the other dominating issue, an interim caretaker administration. The main opposition have clearly said they will not take part in the next parliamentary election without a caretaker system of administration.
Hasina: Well, our opposition leader is saying that now. If you see what she said in 2008 then you will see a totally different thing. The point is that we want a free, fair election. What is an election? The people have their constitutional right, they have their democratic right, and they should get the opportunity to exercise their fundamental right and constitutional right. Through ballot people should have the chance to change the government. And the election must be free and fair.
BBC: But they said it would not be free and fair under the incumbent government.
Hasina: Ok, they have to prove it. Since we formed the government, the Election Commission conducted 5,554 elections in the last four years, including the local elections, 15 by-elections and mayoral election. In many elections, the opposition candidates won. We believe in democracy. The people voted for candidates, whoever they were. It does not matter which party the candidate belongs to. We have to see whether people can vote freely and fairly.
You just ask the opposition if those elections were free and fair under our government. Ask them how their candidates could win the elections. The caretaker government always reminds us of the 2007-2008 situation.
BBC: But many feel ... many civil society activists and media organisations feel Bangladesh is not yet ready for an election under the incumbent government because there is big trust deficit between the two main political parties?
Hasina: In every country there are major political parties, mostly two or three parties. But there are many other parties which contest the election. But the point is whether the Election Commission is strong enough or not. Our present Election Commission was constituted by our president. Before constituting this Election Commission, he talked with each and every political party. He gathered all their suggestions. Even our main opposition participated and placed their suggestions. And according to their opinions he set up a search committee and that search committee constituted this Election Commission. The Election Commission is totally free and fair. And we strengthened it to conduct election freely and fairly. My whole struggle is for free and fair election. Because I have seen how elections were manipulated, how elections were rigged, how violence took place during the election time.
BBC: But the main political parties are not even talking about holding an election. How do you expect the main opposition to take part in election without their main demand being accepted?
Hasina: Listen. If they don't participate in the election as a political party, they will lose.
BBC: But the government will have no credibility.
Hasina: People will participate and I hope they will also participate.
BBC: So, you will go ahead with the election, even if the opposition does not take part in the election?
Hasina: Look, it is a constitutional provision. What else can I do? I have enough strength in the parliament. I can bring any kind of changes in the constitution. But I am not going to do it. In this country, only once was power transferred peacefully. Awami League was in power from 1996 to 2001. Power was transferred peacefully only then. What happened during 2006 when BNP was in power? There was a caretaker government, right? But the voters list was totally fraudulent. Nearly 30 million false voters were included in the list. The Election Commission selected by that government was totally weak. The caretaker government failed to hold the election. And then the army-backed caretaker government came. Usually caretaker government was formed for three months to hold the election. Unfortunately, it could not hold the election.
Many civil society people who became members of the cabinet of the caretaker government had to resign from their posts. After that, the caretaker government continued for two years. And what happened during that time? The army-backed caretaker government put both of us in the jail and then filed false cases against us. So, I do not know why our leader of the opposition wants the same situation again.
BBC: Now you are talking about the army. The leader of the opposition said that the army cannot sit idle in this situation and you are saying the army should protect the constitution. So, both leaders are calling for army's intervention.
Hasina: No, I am not calling the army. I will never support army-backed or army rule. Rather, I opposed army rule from my childhood, since Ayub Khan's time.
BBC: Both leaders are talking about army's role ...
Hasina: Well, she can do it because her party was formed by a military dictator. Because her husband captured power violating the constitution, and declared himself as a president thereby violating the army rules.
BBC: Leave that aside. Is there any chance of another army-backed caretaker administration coming up?
Hasina: Let me finish. Because her party was formed by a military dictator, she perhaps feels that the army will come and put her in power. In this country and the present world, it is not possible. It won't be acceptable to our people. We always protect people's fundamental rights and we will protect our constitutional rights. This country will be run under the constitution. And about caretaker government, the High Court verdict is there. So, how can she demand (reinstatement of caretaker government)?
BBC: But the same verdict also said that the country can go for caretaker administration for the next two terms.
Hasina: It is the parliament that should decide. So, if the parliament does not decide to do it, how can you adopt it? And why should we put this country in an uncertain situation? If our opposition believes in democracy and constitutional procedure, they have to participate in the election.
If they believe in democracy and believe that they have people's support, and if they feel that this government is failing, then they have every chance (to win). We can say our Election Commission is strong enough to hold a free and fair election. The election will be free and fair. People will vote. So, if they participate, they will have good chance to come back to power. They, why they are afraid, why will they not participate in the election?
BBC: Bangladesh has been witnessing nearly six percent economic growth for the last few years. Now, the outside world, the western world, are watching with concern at what has been happening in Bangladesh in the last five or six months. Things have changed dramatically, the investors are now hesitating to come, the global industries are worried about what is happening in this country. So, what are you going to tell the outside world about what is happening in Bangladesh?
Hasina: Look, the economic activities will not stop. They are continuing. Don't worry about it. We know how to tackle the situation. This is nothing new.
BBC: But the exporters are not able to send their goods on time, and some economists say the country is losing millions of dollars. But the two main political parties ... there is no sign of them reaching any solution.
Hasina: Look, for exporters, for exports, we have made alternative arrangements to send all their goods on time. So, there will be no problem. We can ensure that, we are doing it. And the economic activities are going well and will continue. I can assure you. That much arrangement we can make, that much control we have over the country. And our economic activities are not only based in Dhaka city. We have a big country and it will continue. So, don't worry about it. Yes, maybe there is propaganda from the opposition, that's why we sometimes became shaky. But I am very confident.
BBC: Soon after one of the verdicts by the special tribunal, hundreds of youngsters, bloggers and online activists started protesting in the centre of Dhaka, in a place called Shahbagh, and the protest went on for weeks demanding the death penalty. Now the same Shahbagh protesters feel let down by you, by your government, because you are arresting bloggers, curtailing freedom of speech.
Hasina: Yes, the freedom of speech is there. But you cannot hurt anybody's religious sentiment, or you cannot write anything against any religious leader. If you do it, you have to face the consequences. So, we set up a committee to look into it. If they find anybody guilty, they immediately arrest him and look into it. So, we cannot do anything. Now, they (bloggers) are making demands. Well, this is free country, we have freedom of speech. And that's why they can hold rallies, they can voice their demands. So, we can't say there is no freedom of speech.
BBC: Your own coalition partners, alliance partners and some of the leftist parties have criticised you for the arrest of online activists.
Hasina: It proves that I always believe in freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of expression. That we ensure. It proves that. I have to run the country, right? I have to work for the people. Everybody is free in this country, all media enjoy freedom, they can say anything. But I know what to do, how to go forward. I know that. So, we are doing it according to rules. We will move forward. They can make demands. Now one party is demanding something, another party is demanding something else. It is their fundamental right, so they are doing it. I have to act according to our law, our constitution. And this country is a secular democracy. No one has any right to hurt anybody's religious sentiment. We have to protect each and every religion.
BBC: Are you confident that you will complete your five year term?
Hasina: Of course. Why not? How many months remain?
BBC: Do you think the Bangladesh government is equipped to face this political crisis?
Hasina: Of course my government is.
BBC: Is there any chance of you reaching out to the main opposition for talks?
Hasina: Well, my door is open, and already we have offered to talk. When an offer goes from our side they reject it.
BBC: They say the government is not making a meaningful offer.
Hasina: Well, I don't know what will be meaningful. They should spell out how it will be meaningful. They haven't spelt that out.
BBC: Don't you think that it will look strange to the outside world that the court is asking the two main leaders of the country why don't you sit and talk?
Hasina: It is really strange, even to me. It is not a matter for the court. But somebody went there. What can the courts do? How can the court give orders? So, it is a very ridiculous thing, that's true. But the case is pending in the court. I can't make any comment because it would be subjudice. But when it is over, we can make our comments. I will do that.